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What Did I Tell You?

  • May. 28th, 2009 at 4:00 AM
Brad @ Burning Man
I didn't spend all of those years studying First Amendment law, or all of those years doing volunteer civil liberties work, without learning a thing or two. Which is why David Kravets' "U.S. Manga Obscenity Conviction Roils Comics World" (Wired "Threat Level" column, 5/28/09) came as exactly no shock to me. I'll bet quite a few of you can't say the same.

For those of you who don't want to (or can't) click through to the original article, let me summarize: in 2006, a (now) 39 year old Iowa manga collector named Christopher Handley ordered half a dozen volumes of "lolicon" manga from a retailer in Japan. They were intercepted by a US Customs Service inspector, and Handley was charged with importation and possession of child pornography, specifically "possession of any type of visual depiction, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct that is obscene." Yesterday, on advice of his attorney, he plead guilty to all charges. He faces a prison term of up to 15 years, a fine of up to $250,000, plus 3 years probation, and he will spend the rest of his life listed on the convicted sex offender registry.

No, we don't know what books he ordered, but according to the US Department of Justice press release ("Iowa Man Pleads Guilty to Possessing Obscene Visual Representations of the Sexual Abuse of Children", 5/20/09), "in May 2006, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) intercepted a mail package coming into the United States from Japan that was addressed to Handley. Inside the package was obscene material, including books containing visual representations of the sexual abuse of children, specifically Japanese manga drawings of minor females being sexually abused by adult males and animals. Pursuant to a search warrant, the U.S. Postal Inspection Service (USPIS) searched and seized additional obscene drawings of the sexual abuse of children at Handley’s residence in Glenwood."

I will also tell you that either Handley's lawyer Eric Chase is either grand-standing, or else he's flatly incompetent to practice First Amendment law, if it's true that he told Wired, "It’s probably the only law I’m aware of, if a client shows me a book or magazine or movie, and asks me if this image is illegal, I can’t tell them." Lawyers who specialize in obscenity cases, both pro-civil-liberties and anti-pornography, track jury verdicts and can tell you with nearly 100% reliability whether what they're looking at would be ruled obscene by a jury, and yes, I'm telling you right now, no jury has ever not indicted and convicted for visual portrayals of children having sex. The same is equally true of equally graphic portrayals of bestiality, necrophilia, urolalia, scat play, rape, or simultaneous sex and torture. To anybody who actually knows what they're talking about, this isn't even controversial, and if Eric Chase didn't know that, and didn't research the case law enough to know that, Handley had an idiot for an attorney. Or, alternatively, he does know it, but is counting on you not to know it.

If Handley had a case, that case would have depended on an "artistic merit" defense; under US obscenity law, no image is obscene if it has "serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value." (1973 Miller v California.) The Comic Book Legal Defense Fund says that they consulted on the case and lined up expert witnesses to testify to the artistic merits of "lolicon" manga. Apparently Chase, and Handley, concluded that the jury wasn't going to buy it. They may well be right; at least one past jury in a high-profile, well funded, well defended case made it clear that if the subject matter is offensive enough, they don't care how famous the artist is or what the critics say about the importance of the work, it's still obscene.

Told you so. Lots of you didn't believe me, but I did tell you.


P.S. Note the date of the interception of Handley's manga. The US Customs Service, and presumably thereby the US Postal Service, have known what retailers in Japan sell this stuff to American buyers for at least three years. Can your library survive a search warrant? If not, you've got work to do. Hope you own a cross-cut paper shredder and an indoor fireplace. Otherwise, you're betting the rest of your life that they won't pick you to be the next person they make an example out of.

You might keep being lucky. There are a lot of lolicon manga collectors in the US. Only one of them has been convicted, so far. Is it worth it to you to keep betting those odds? If so, be my guest. But if you are going to do so, may I politely suggest, not as a lawyer but as someone who studies the history of these things? Shut the hell up about it. Tell no one, especially not through an online email service or web forum or blog, no matter how good you think your anonymity is (because it isn't), that you are doing so. Because that's just asking for it. When prosecutors are looking to hand out search warrants, people who brag about their crimes in public are the first ones they target.

Unless, of course, you have a martyr complex and want to be a registered sex offender for the rest of your life, because taking a stand As a Matter of Principle is that important to you. If it is? Again, be my guest. If you're that determined to be a martyr, though, don't expect me to stand up for you.

P.P.S. Every time I write about anything like this, people think I'm standing up for the law or defending the prosecutors. I'm not. If it were up to me, you could collect drawings (or even pictures or movies) of anything you want. I don't write this stuff because I'm anti-porn, or anti- any "Forbidden Lore." I write this stuff because ignorance of the laws you live under appalls and offends me. I write this stuff because I'm tired of self-entitled idiots who've never participated in democracy in any way stubbornly and naively insisting that the law is whatever they want it to be, that juries have to agree with them about what should and shouldn't be legal.

If you want to enjoy an illegal hobby, it behooves you to know the law and your chances of acquittal if you're caught. If you want your illegal hobby to be legal, you've got work to do. Saying stupid crap like, "yaoi and hentai and lolicon manga are entirely legal because they're just lines on paper" doesn't make it true, it just makes you someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. If you want all lines on paper to be legal, your nearest ACLU would love you to donate and volunteer. You're not going to achieve that goal by whining about it in your LiveJournal, nor on mine. I'm just saying.

Comments

( 64 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]ff00ff wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 09:14 am (UTC)
Haha! The snarky artist in me likes this story simply because of the fact that the US judicial system, acting as art critic, decided that manga, has no artistic merit.

On the other hand it's a heavy handed and gross abuse of legal authority. An obscene comic book is a victimless crime. So my mirth at the decision really isn't worth an innocent man being treated like a criminal.
[info]l33tminion wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 11:55 pm (UTC)
The snarky artist in me likes this story simply because of the fact that the US judicial system, acting as art critic, decided that manga, has no artistic merit.

This is true only if you view a guilty plea the same as a conviction, and the particular works in question as all the manga that's ever been created (or even a representative sample).
[info]krinndnz wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 09:33 am (UTC)
If you want to enjoy an illegal hobby, it behooves you to know the law and your chances of acquittal if you're caught.

I'd like to underline and emphasize that sentence by quoting it. It should be the takeaway lesson from this post. Rule #1 of being a deviant of any kind: learn to avoid attention from The Police (including but not limited to the badge-wearing kind).

Moving away from the principal text of the post into related matters: While civil society as a whole could definitely stand a lesson in "bringing the police and the courts into a matter is the last resort," it's especially important for anyone far enough out of the mainstream that their lifestyle has consequences. This includes many people who, in a sane society, could indulge themselves without harming anyone or being bothered in turn. We ain't there yet. Fighting for a saner society is great - but it's mean-spirited and counterproductive to cast aspersions at people for doing what they have to to survive instead of Fighting The Good Fight. So, I suppose this is to second the ACLU-volunteering recommendation. The EFF, too, is perennially strapped for resources, and so is MAPS.
[info]daev wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 11:31 pm (UTC)
"To live outside the law, you must be honest." -- Bob Dylan
[info]lassiter wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 01:15 pm (UTC)

I've often wondered about the application of the child porn laws (which, after all, are supposed to protect actual victims of sexual abuse) to lines on paper or ink on cells (anime). If the manga or anime itself is 18 years old or older, does it become legal?

For the record, I am a 20+ year member of the ACLU and a 1st amendment activist. It's sad but true that the ACLU is very reluctant to defend anything remotely connected to pornography these days, even when the real legal issues are not about the content as much as about the questionable methodology used in bringing prosecutions (venue-shopping, entrapment, etc.).
[info]l33tminion wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 11:57 pm (UTC)
I think previous laws along those lines have been struck down by SCOTUS, but newer laws have been passed since then?

And the chance for appeal doesn't really prevent your life from being ruined.
[info]tormentedartist wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 02:45 pm (UTC)
I hate this sort of witch hunting. And I hate the citizens that go for this sort of bullshit. At the same time I believe in protecting children. But does this stuff really protect children? Or does it make people( the jurors ) feel like they are?
[info]twopiearr wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 03:56 pm (UTC)
But does this stuff really protect children?

Short answer is "no".

Complete answer requires more characters than LJ allows in a comment.
[info]bradhicks wrote:
May. 29th, 2009 01:31 am (UTC)
I'll try to give the short answer that [info]twopiearr didn't: a broad majority of US voters and legislators believe that looking at pictures of children displayed in sexually provocative ways, or of children having sex with each other, let alone of children having sex with adults, causes at least some people who were struggling with their urge to sexually molest children to give in and do so, whether they're of real children or not, and that keeping such images out of their hands would reduce their temptation and thereby save at least some children from molestation.

It's not an obviously implausible hypothesis. But it's far, far from proven, and that's putting it mildly. It's a difficult subject to study because accurate data is very hard to come by, and meaningful experiments are hard to design, let alone carry out. Simplest possible experimental question: if you control for other relevant variables (like amount of private access to other people's children), are more children molested in Japan, where this stuff is legal, than in America, where it's not? We could compare reported rates of child molestation in the two countries, but do the Japanese investigate child molestation in the same way we do? I don't think so. That question would also treat "is illegal" as a proxy for "is less widespread," and I don't know that that's true, either, in the Internet Age.

In the absence of demonstrable facts, the voters are voting their feelings and gut instincts, and their gut instincts tell them that keeping these pictures and movies and even stories out of the country will reduce child molestation rates, and since those same voters consider this stuff really, really gross, they don't think it's a high cost to pay to protect those children.

I think they're full of crap on all premises. But, then, I can't prove my position, either, now, can I?
(no subject) - [info]sianmink - May. 29th, 2009 04:39 am (UTC) Expand
[info]roninspoon wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 02:52 pm (UTC)
I read about this case the other day, and was dismayed by the results. I'm not sure what bothers me more, the way in which it appears to be handled, or how easily it's created a dangerous precedent for similar cases.

There is one part of the fallout from this that I can easily identify as the most upsetting to me though, and that's the reaction of some people. No matter where I see commentary on this case, and others like it, there are a lot of people who claim things like "I'm all for the first amendment and free speech and all that, but this sort of stuff is wrong, and shouldn't be allowed."

When I hear people say something so insufferably ignorant, I have problems breathing.
[info]cuglas wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 03:34 pm (UTC)
If Handley had a case, that case would have depended on an "artistic merit" defense; under US obscenity law, no image is obscene if it has "serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value." (1973 Miller v California.) The Comic Book Legal Defense Fund says that they consulted on the case and lined up expert witnesses to testify to the artistic merits of "lolicon" manga. Apparently Chase, and Handley, concluded that the jury wasn't going to buy it. They may well be right; at least one past jury in a high-profile, well funded, well defended case made it clear that if the subject matter is offensive enough, they don't care how famous the artist is or what the critics say about the importance of the work, it's still obscene.

This makes me want to smack the lawyer. Hard. It's not the easiest defense to make, but the alternative is no defense other than "Are those kids? I can't tell." The JURY can tell and they aren't going to believe you.

The law is as you said and it's repeatedly been held to constitutional. The only recourse once a court has found a law to be validly passed and valid is a political solution. You have to lobby the legislature to change the law. The laws about materials that show imaginary children, rather than real children, are somewhat idiotic. They don't hurt anyone, unless it's hurting the morals of the person viewing it. (And adults should be permitted to mind their own morals, thank you.) The problem is that no one is willing to stand up for perverts who want look at pictures of (fake) children having sex. Who is going to lobby Congress on this? No one. What Congress-critter will vote to change the law? None of them.
[info]vee_ecks wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 04:09 pm (UTC)
The problem is that no one is willing to stand up for perverts who want look at pictures of (fake) children having sex.

Go figure on that one.
(no subject) - [info]connactic - May. 28th, 2009 04:57 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]gleef - May. 28th, 2009 05:23 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]sianmink - May. 29th, 2009 04:44 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]bradhicks - May. 29th, 2009 07:25 am (UTC) Expand
[info]ionotter wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 04:51 pm (UTC)
Quoted and linked in my journal, because furries fit into this a heck of a lot more than otaku. The law just doesn't know that much about us just yet, but don't worry? They're catching up fast.
[info]mikazo wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 08:19 pm (UTC)
My question would be, out of curiosity, how much furry pornography really fit into the 'obscene' category, even when "cub-pornography" isn't remotely involved. Does it count as bestiality?
(no subject) - [info]koogrr - May. 28th, 2009 10:07 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]cargoweasel - May. 29th, 2009 01:13 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]koogrr - May. 29th, 2009 05:08 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]bradhicks - May. 29th, 2009 01:44 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]mikazo - May. 29th, 2009 01:50 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]bradhicks - May. 29th, 2009 01:55 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]mikazo - May. 29th, 2009 02:02 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]bradhicks - May. 29th, 2009 07:26 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]koogrr - May. 29th, 2009 05:40 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]phillipalden wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 05:17 pm (UTC)
"..importation and possession of child pornography, specifically "possession of any type of visual depiction, including a drawing, cartoon, sculpture, or painting, that depicts a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct that is obscene."

That is complete and total bullshit! For a crime to be committed there has to be a victim. A drawing cannot be a victim. Maybe if the guy was sending/showing the stuff to kids, they might have a case.

This is not justice, it's totalitarianism.
[info]drewkitty wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 07:53 pm (UTC)
>> For a crime to be committed there has to be a victim.

You are wrong on the facts. There are many, many so-called "victimless crimes" on the books.

To do something prohibited by statute, or to fail in a duty imposed by statute (such as maintaining automobile insurance if you drive, or stopping at the scene of an accident in which you were involved), is to commit a criminal offense.

No victim is required. While intent is often an element of certain crimes, and may increase the seriousness of an offense, many crimes do not even require intent.

I suggest that you Google 'totalitarianism.'
(no subject) - [info]sianmink - May. 29th, 2009 04:52 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]kimchalister - May. 29th, 2009 07:03 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]bradhicks - May. 29th, 2009 07:28 am (UTC) Expand
[info]gleef wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 05:19 pm (UTC)
Lines on Paper
Your points about juries are valid, it's easy to squick them out. However, this case shouldn't have even gone to trial.

FWIW, I don't like lolicon, but:

Saying stupid crap like, "yaoi and hentai and lolicon manga are entirely legal because they're just lines on paper" doesn't make it true,

Sure, saying it doesn't make it true, but Supreme Court rulings like Ashcroft v Free Speech Coalition do appear to make such statements true. And the dicta in US v. Williams seems pretty clear that the government cannot outlaw selling or purchasing such lines on paper either, so long as it's clear that you're not trying to sell or purchase footage of actual children being victimized.
"an offer to provide or request to receive virtual child pornography is not prohibited by the statute. A crime is committed only when the speaker believes or intends the listener to believe that the subject of the proposed transaction depicts real children."

"Simulated child pornography will be as available as ever."
    — US v Williams
Granted, US v Williams was after this customs interception, so the prosecutor probably thought he was doing the right thing, at least at the start, but I see no reason why this ruling shouldn't get thrown out on appeal.

The legal consensus today, going all the way up to the US Supreme Court, appears to be: if kids are harmed to make your pictures, it's illegal, if real kids aren't involved (eg. loli), or if kids aren't harmed (eg. legitimate photos of nudism), it's legal.
[info]krinndnz wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 09:21 pm (UTC)
Re: Lines on Paper
but I see no reason why this ruling shouldn't get thrown out on appeal.

They're not appealing, though.
Re: Lines on Paper - [info]bradhicks - May. 29th, 2009 01:54 am (UTC) Expand
[info]kallisti wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 06:39 pm (UTC)
I'm no fan of lolicon, but I am willing to bet that many types of what would be called hentai, be it manga or anime, would run afoul of various laws, both in Canada and the US.
[info]bradhicks wrote:
May. 29th, 2009 02:02 am (UTC)
I know essentially nothing about Canadian artistic freedom law. Never studied it. If you want to write something up and link it in reply, or if you know of a good brief summary to link in reply, and you want to, please do.
(no subject) - [info]kallisti - May. 29th, 2009 04:19 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]kimchalister - May. 29th, 2009 07:11 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]koogrr - May. 29th, 2009 05:42 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]vee_ecks - May. 29th, 2009 06:52 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]silveradept wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 08:57 pm (UTC)
Interesting. The ruling part wasn't that much in doubt, so the plea is a smart option. I'm still a bit surprised there hasn't been much analysis on the authority the Postal Service had to inspect the packages, whether they could make a judgment on obscenity upon discovery of the package, and whether they had other options than to contact police and prosecute. The answers are probably all such that we get to this point anyway, but I wonder if there is a spot where all of this could have been avoided.
(Anonymous) wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 09:09 pm (UTC)
it appears it was ICE not USPS that did the inspecting (because it came from overseas).

That it was inspected at all leads me to believe that this was something they were already on the lookout for -- either from the japanese company or in mail to this particular person receiving the package.
(no subject) - [info]bradhicks - May. 29th, 2009 01:20 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]krinndnz - May. 28th, 2009 09:23 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]silveradept - May. 28th, 2009 09:56 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]krinndnz - May. 28th, 2009 10:03 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]silveradept - May. 28th, 2009 11:32 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]https://me.yahoo.com/a/CRHToCR_u_pyhdhbdb63vPhzb34g1wkkyQ--#e897d wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 10:29 pm (UTC)
Isn't there a pretty huge difference between a guilty plea and an actual court decision? The former doesn't set any kind of legal "precedent", contrary to some comments here.

I find it very unlikely that the prohibition of simple possession would have withstood Supreme Court scrutiny if Mr. Handley had had the resources and will to take his case that far, given Stanley v. Georgia ("If the First Amendment means anything, it means that a State has no business telling a man, sitting alone in his own house, what books he may read or what films he may watch") and Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition.
[info]l33tminion wrote:
May. 28th, 2009 11:54 pm (UTC)
Am I correct to believe that the guy now has no chance to appeal, having plead guilty? Of course, you're right that there's no way in hell he would have been acquitted, since the jurors wouldn't have been considering the 1st Amendment issues, would probably have been instructed not to consider such things. But a federal court certainly would have considered such issues on appeal.

Then again, the guy's life is totally ruined either way, so it's a toss-up.
[info]bradhicks wrote:
May. 29th, 2009 01:16 am (UTC)
Mostly correct. Once you've plead guilty, you can appeal to get your guilty plea set aside, but only for a tiny handful of narrowly drawn and hard to prove reasons -- although incompetent legal representation very, very rarely works.

You're wrong about the jury instructions in such cases; the jury instructions would have been more or less straight out of Miller: because a determination of whether or not something is obscene is a factual determination, and determining disputed facts is the fundamental prerogative of an American jury.

But having plead guilty, he's basically stipulated that the prosecution is correct, and therefore the "facts" are not in dispute in his case any more, both the prosecution and he agree that the works in question were legally obscene.
[info]cargoweasel wrote:
May. 29th, 2009 01:16 am (UTC)
The real lesson here is don't buy this stuff in print, and learn to use encryption.

[info]bradhicks wrote:
May. 29th, 2009 01:49 am (UTC)
If it's worth it to you. But remember that all 50 states also have "cyber criminal" units now, investigating to find out who in their jurisdictions are downloading the stuff from websites or mailing lists or other servers that are known to distribute it, and there have been cases where people have been required to give up their passwords and decryption keys or go to jail for contempt of court. What you are advocating is not any more legal, nor statistically any safer.
(no subject) - [info]cargoweasel - May. 29th, 2009 02:31 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]bradhicks - May. 29th, 2009 07:33 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]ionotter - May. 29th, 2009 05:04 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]siege - May. 31st, 2009 07:28 am (UTC) Expand
(Anonymous) wrote:
May. 29th, 2009 10:09 am (UTC)
Brad, you haven't even mentioned Stanley v. Georgia in either this post or the one from two years ago. That's the one where the court held that private possession (albeit pretty much nothing else) of obscene material IS protected by the 1st Amendment. "If the First Amendment means anything, it means that a State has no business telling a man, sitting alone in his own house, what books he may read or what films he may watch." I think this is a pretty glaring omission when you're making grim pronouncements about shredders and fireplaces.

Osborne v. Ohio held that mere possession of child pornography--unlike obscene material per Stanley--could be outlawed because of the state's interest in preventing the exploitation of children in making child porn. However, it's pretty clear that this reasoning does not apply to drawn and written material (and I'm not being glib here, the Court said as much in Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition--they didn't cite Osborne but they did cite New York v. Ferber, an earlier decision that allowed states to ban the sale of child porn)

I've seen a few claims on the net that "Stanley v. Georgia is old law that was invalidated by Miller" but that seems to be incorrect; in addition to Miller and Ferber, the Supreme Court also directly cited Stanley in the Ashcroft v. Free Speech Coalition decision.

However, even assuming as I am that Stanley v. Georgia invalidated the "possession" charges, this guy would still be fucked for importing the obscene manga; I'm guessing that's why his lawyer advised him to plead guilty. (Also, he didn't "plead guilty to all charges"; there was a plea bargain)
[info]tyciol wrote:
May. 30th, 2009 02:51 am (UTC)
I am glad popular journalers are writing about this now, I think word is spreading and I hope this will lead to obescenity laws getting the boot and all these poor victims being released and compensated and put into protection from the masses after them after their privacy was invaded.
[info]nancylebov wrote:
May. 30th, 2009 01:04 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure total avoidance is the right approach for very rare but severe risks. Would you say "be prepared to end up crippled or dead if you do that, so you almost certainly shouldn't do it" to people who go out on the highways?
[info]danforth_anchor wrote:
May. 31st, 2009 01:44 pm (UTC)
Yeah, and it was settled law under _Bowers v. Hardwick_ that there were no Constitutional grounds for striking down laws against homosexuality until _Lawrence v. Texas_ came along.

If you want to make a post about the pragmatic issues surrounding this issue, fine.

If you want to make a post about the Constitutional Law issues surrounding this issue, that's fine too.

It's when you mix the two that it becomes understandable that people feel you're "standing up for the law or defending the prosecutors" any time you "write about anything like this." I think they choose to believe that because, frankly, it's a more charitable interpretation of your posts than that they are written "because ignorance of the laws you live under appalls and offends" you, because you're "tired of self-entitled idiots who've never participated in democracy in any way stubbornly and naively insisting that the law is whatever they want it to be, that juries have to agree with them about what should and shouldn't be legal."

Fact is, I think those people hope the judge never lets a jury consider whether it's legal or not--I've never heard of the Constitutionality of something being a matter for the jury to decide. I believe people look at your links and think any judge would decide that no reasonable person could decide that this material lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value and would never allow the question to even reach the jury.

If your motivation is to lord your superior knowledge of U.S. law over people, that's fine--just don't complain when people who consider your posts to be those of someone interested in informing them as opposed to someone getting their rocks off using their superior knowledge of the counter-intuitive nature of Constitutional Law, don't complain if those people get their feathers ruffled.

Then again, if you're posting with the mood "smug" about someone's life being ruined and the state of the law being what it is even if it were up to you, they "could collect drawings (or even pictures or movies) of anything" they wanted, I think you're enjoying the fact that people are disturbed. Which, frankly, is far worse than if you *were* actually "standing up for the law or defending the prosecutors." I think it would be far more acceptable to people to find that someone was smug about their moral beliefs being vindicated, than to find that someone was smug about their moral beliefs being frustrated but their superior knowledge about the state of the law being vindicated.

At least if you were "standing up for the law or defending the prosecutors" your smug mood would be the result of feeling the world is a better place; it's kind of ugly to be smug about the world being a worse place as long as what makes the world a worse place gives you the opportunity to feel superior to "self-entitled idiots" that happen to know less about how a flawed system works than you do.
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jun. 22nd, 2009 07:14 pm (UTC)
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Jun. 26th, 2009 03:14 am (UTC)
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