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Brad @ Burning Man
I've been way too lazy to write, lately. Once in a rare while, that works in my favor. Three separate people today have asked me if the Russian invasion of Georgia means that they should be worrying about the risk of a nuclear war between the US and Russia. I spent a couple of hours, off and on, trying to knock together a good backgrounder on the subject, but really didn't have all that powerful an urge to write it down. And then, just as I was about to give up and go to bed, I found out that BBC diplomatic correspondent Bridget Kendall has done most of it for me, so start here: "Russia actions confound allies," BBC News, 8/12/08.

All I want to add is this. Georgia got conquered by the long-gone Russian Empire one holy heck of a long time ago. As a propaganda move, it was declared a separate "republic" in the old Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, with its own borders, but no actual independence was intended or implied, let alone achieved. Actual independence came in 1991, when in the midst of a total military and economic collapse, the Soviet Union ceased to exist, and what was left of a Russian government grudgingly conceded freedom to a whole bunch of places that the Russians really did feel belonged to them, never mind that nobody else thought so, like Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Belarus, the Ukraine, and yes, Georgia. And Russia's current extra-constitutional dictator-for-life, Vladimir Putin, has never accepted that.

Nor, it turns out, did some people who really didn't want to be in Georgia, no matter where the old Soviet Union had drawn the borders, the Abkhazians and the South Ossetians. Who fought their own war of secession from Georgia. Scant years after Georgia won its own independence, they got a weird sort of de facto independence, and an even weirder sort of de facto annexation by Russia. That is to say, they forced the Georgian military and government to withdraw completely, and got Russia to issue Russian passports to everybody in their regions, while the Georgians and the whole rest of the world pretended that they were still in Georgia, in some way.

By way of comparison, imagine if you will that, say, Texas and New Mexico had attempted to secede from the Union 15 years ago, and had not entirely failed. Imagine that while they were technically still part of the US, for 15 years everybody in those states had been given Mexican passports, and no US soldiers or federal agents were allowed in. Now imagine the US finally gotten confident enough to try to retake those states, which is pretty much what Georgia just tried to do to South Ossetia and Abkhazia a couple of days ago. Now imagine that Mexico was dozens of times our size. And that Mexico had nukes, and we didn't. And imagine that we had somehow gotten the impression that neither our inferior military nor our lack of nukes would matter, because we mistakenly thought that if Mexico tried to stop us from recapturing Arizona and Texas, Europe would nuke them. Now you're caught up.

The US is not going to nuke Russia. Although to be fair, Putin (and his puppet president) took a minor gamble there. As part of our support for Georgia, the US had 130 "military trainers" in there as a trip-wire force. Had they come under direct attack by Russian troops, under old Cold War "rules," the US would have been forced to retaliate with everything up to and including nukes. But, as must come as a horrible surprise to our Georgian allies, we're pulling those troops way, way back from the front. And as far as Putin is concerned, we're taking one heck of a risk, by Cold War "rules," flying Georgia's soldiers who were fighting in Iraq back home to defend their homeland; if our planes had looked like they were going to drop them inside or near the front lines, the Russians could technically have counted that as a US attack on their troops, and would have been obligated, technically, to retaliate with everything up to and including nukes. But it's not going to happen, because as Putin has entirely correctly guessed, the US is not going to risk nuclear war over Georgia.

In fact, the fair comparison isn't to the Cold War, but to the OPEC crisis; this isn't the Berlin Airlift, this is the 6-Day War or the Yom Kippur War all over again, only the Georgians aren't nearly as prepared as the Israelis were. Just as in the late 60s and early 70s when the US military was depleted, our currency in shreds, and our federal budget a weeping sore of red ink, and for just the same reason, an expensive and unsuccessful land war in Asia that was financed through deficit spending rather than Americans' voluntary financial sacrifice, we are once again facing a petro-state, Russia, that knows what Egypt and Saudi Arabia knew back in 1973: they can do pretty much whatever they want, including credibly threaten to wreck our economy by shutting down oil exports like the Egyptians and Saudis did back in '73, and we can't do anything about it but sputter, then whine, and then do what President Carter did, which is to say, surrender and agree to pay danegeld forever. (And, by the way, yes, we're still paying Carter's danegeld to the Egyptians and the Saudis. I suppose some of it financed 9/11, indirectly. Your tax dollars at work.)

But given that Russia isn't just a petro-state but a nuclear state, while this in no way even plausibly threatens World War III, it could quite conceivably be a return to the Cold War. Which would kind of suck. Although as I've pointed out three other times, to various people, in the last 24 hours, we did survive the Cold War. Well, "we" did. Tens of thousands of American troops died in several proxy wars. And hundreds of thousands of people all over the Third World who died in those wars plus various civil wars stirred up by the US and the USSR didn't exactly survive, as such, either. Sucked to be them, just as it sucks to be Georgia now.

If you're reading this anywhere outside of the Caucuses or the Baltics, or maybe if worse comes to worse eastern Europe, and you manage not to get drafted into another stupid war somewhere much farther from Russian borders than this war, you're probably just as safe as we were during the first phase of the Cold War. Maybe safer, if somebody manages to persuade Putin that a renewed Cold War wouldn't actually work out so well for the Russians, not any better than the last one did. That'd be an uphill battle, though, since he apparently thinks that what happened in 1991 was us taking advantage of a temporary setback of theirs, not the inevitable result of Russia's inability to keep up with the rest of the world in Cold War spending without wrecking their economy. If he can't be persuaded to pull back from re-igniting the Cold War, and you're anywhere near Russia's borders? Sucks to be you.

(As an aside: I've also been too lazy to properly screen comments lately, so I see that I'm more than 100 comments behind. I hope that none of you have been abusing my hospitality in my absence. If you've posted something ban-worthy in the last week or so, maybe you better be smart and go back and delete it before I get tempted to block you from commenting. Don't make me work hard at managing comments to this blog when the weather's so beautiful outside, or I may get crabby and over-react.)

Comments

[info]nancylebov wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 09:46 am (UTC)
I wasn't worried about a nuclear war between the US and Russia over Georgia. I am worried (in a general humanitarian way, not specifically about US interests) about an eventual big war between Russia and China.
[info]andrewducker wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 10:34 am (UTC)
Best solution to that one - make them economically dependent on each other through encouraging trade.
[info]elizilla wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 01:13 pm (UTC)
I love your userpic icon!
[info]andrewducker wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 01:14 pm (UTC)
Steal away :->

(I did)

Edited at 2008-08-12 01:14 pm (UTC)
[info]nancylebov wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 01:56 pm (UTC)
There may be a solution, but I can't imagine what it would be.

The love of having an empire and feeling like you're at the top seems to generally trump practicality.

I have a vague impression that limiting trade is part of the run-up to wars. Anyone know? If so, trade just isn't a stable feature.

On the propaganda side, I'd like to see a campaign that the EU-- the place that countries line up and change themselves to join-- is infinitely cooler than anyplace put together by conquest. However, that's fighting some very primal drives.

The libertarian angle would be to encourage anti-draft movements.
[info]drewkitty wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 03:15 pm (UTC)
Russia and China have major border tensions every now and again. As long as they have strategic depth and there are no nukes involved, neither really wants to have to occupy the other. A scarier scenario is Russia and China at complete and trustworthy peace, which frees up major forces to fight their other border wars. (Russia vs: breakaway republics and expanding influence in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. China vs: Taiwan, smaller countries and eventually gearing up for the big prize that they really want, India.)
[info]discogravy wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 02:23 pm (UTC)
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 05:27 pm (UTC)
What a disgusting excuse for a human being. I need a shower after reading that. I don't particularly dispute his tactical or political analysis, but his raw enthusiasm over watching people kill each other and die in grisly ways as if it were porn being staged for him? There is only one form of justice appropriate for someone like him: air-drop him into a war zone. Where he doesn't speak the language. Empty-handed. Maybe with a parachute.
[info]discogravy wrote:
Aug. 13th, 2008 05:24 am (UTC)
That's his schtick, and his columns are mostly about the analysis (ghost written by at least one writer/editor -- gary brechter (nee war nerd) is a pastiche/prop).
[info]dmlaenker wrote:
Aug. 16th, 2008 07:41 am (UTC)
I think it needs clarification that The Exile is Russia's equivalent of The Onion. Or was, anyway, until they got banned.
[info]drewkitty wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 03:13 pm (UTC)
It's rather threatening for the stability of Europe. I'm frankly amazed that an old Cold Warrior like Bush, for his many and grievous faults, doesn't appear to recognize the stakes in this mess.

One option, instead of pulling the trainers, is to drop the ready battalion of the 82nd Airborne along a clearly marked line well outside the disputed area but between Russian troops and the capital. "America's speed bumps" are for exactly this purpose.

I've heard over and over again in the last two days, "It's just like Munich!" I'd be curious to hear Brad's take on that, the comparison to Germany's expansion that began World War II.

It occurs to me to wonder how well Iran and Russia are getting along these days, and whether the latter would provide logistics support (read: anti-shipping missiles) to the former. If so, we have a problem.
[info]greymalkini wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 03:51 pm (UTC)
I guess the problem will come about as we know more about what NATO's and the US' response to be. Russia, unable to complete with our precision weapons, has a standing policy of using tac-nukes in retaliation for our using "smart" weapons. At least that's the stated policy, no one has tested it yet. Shrub and neo-cons might get a big enough hard-on thinking about it to try it.
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 05:14 pm (UTC)
The Nazi occupation of Poland and Czechoslovakia ins't as useful a metaphor. My default comparison, the first one I thought of, was what Saddam did to Kuwait. Putin's preferred comparison is to what the US did in Yugoslavia, using military force to defend the right of ethnic minorities to secede from a Russian ally. The comparison that both Putin and I agree on is that it's based on the same kind of shallow, indefensible legal reasoning that the US used to invade Iraq.
[info]joxn wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 05:27 pm (UTC)
It's just the Ledeen Doctrine (as quoted by Jonah Goldberg) with names changed: "Every ten years or so, the United States Russia needs to pick up some small crappy little country and throw it against the wall, just to show the world we mean business."

When did Russia start the 2nd Chechen War again? Late '99. So it was about time.

[info]ff00ff wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 10:01 pm (UTC)
Oh god, I hope Russia takes control of the pipelines in Georgia and stops exporting to the US. Keep the pressure on, I say. Our leaders will have no choice but to turn America into a slightly less interventionist force in world politics (which means maybe we'll only get involved in good fights, like stopping genocide in Darfur) and we'll finally have to turn our backs on big oil and become the Geothermal powered utopia that MIT has been telling us we could be if we only gave a crap.
[info]ff00ff wrote:
Aug. 12th, 2008 10:07 pm (UTC)
Speaking of which, what do you think of the Science Debate '08 movement?

IMHO we're on a precipice where if we could stop wasteful "defence" spending for just a few years and turn to our nations infrastructure America could virtually be an island, with no need for middle eastern oil, and no need to involve ourselves in that region's conflicts.

Instead crazy tough guys like McCain are getting party nominations because Romney didn't pass the religion litmus test. Good god won't somebody please give a scientifically literate person (Al Gore?) the department of energy? Clean coal my ass!
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Aug. 13th, 2008 08:42 am (UTC)
If I said that I thought it was a great idea, do you have any plausible idea as to how to convince a sizable majority of the American electorate to want it and demand it? Because I can't think of a way.

And by the way, even if we completely zeroed out all military spending on both Iraq and Afghanistan, we'd still have a $0.2 trillion federal budget deficit next year. Consider that while you're dreaming of grand spending schemes.
[info]joxn wrote:
Aug. 14th, 2008 07:21 pm (UTC)
What does it look like when the Bush tax cuts expire, as they are set to, in 2010?
[info]interactiveleaf wrote:
Aug. 13th, 2008 04:41 am (UTC)
Dear "Ask Brad",

Given that the UN agency responsible for such things keeps reporting over and over and over again that Iran is pursuing a nuclear energy program, and that allegations of a nuclear weapons program are repeatedly disproven or just not backed up, why is the whole Western world so dead set against it?

Curiously yours,
[info]interactiveleaf
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Aug. 13th, 2008 08:37 am (UTC)
What "whole Western world" would that be? From where I sit, the only "people" still insisting that Iran has an active nuclear weapons program are a few Israeli politicians seeking distractions from their corruption scandals, and Dick Cheney and his followers.

A week or so ago, I saw a live interview with Iran's president by what's-his-name, the anchor for NBC Nightly News. (Sorry not to look these things up, I'm half asleep right this minute.) When he asked Iran about this, the Iranian president said just about the only thing he could have said that would have come anywhere near convincing me that maybe Iran doesn't actually want The Bomb. As best as I can paraphrase it from memory, he pointed out that India and Pakistan both have the bomb ... has this helped them settle their differences in the Kashmir? He pointed out that Israel has over 200 nuclear weapons ... did this help them in Lebanon? He pointed out that the United States has tens of thousands of nuclear weapons ... did this help us in Iraq? "Nuclear weapons are a 20th century technology. This is the 21st century. We'd be fools to even want them."

It sounds glib to me. As long as Israel is keeping their nukes, I can't imagine any of its neighbors not wanting nukes of their own. No, that doesn't go far enough; as long as Israel keeps their nukes, I can't imagine any country in the region not needing a matching nuclear deterrent. There is only one genuinely effective way to end nuclear proliferation in the Middle East: destroy Israel's nuclear weapons program.

But after what Iran's president said the other day, I'm beginning to see that it may actually be plausible that Iran may actually be telling the truth when they say that the need nuclear power to free up more oil for exports in order to get necessary imported food and medicine. Who would've thunk it?

Edited at 2008-08-13 08:38 am (UTC)
[info]interactiveleaf wrote:
Aug. 13th, 2008 12:09 pm (UTC)
The EU and the UN are both independently levying sanctions against Iran for failure to suspend its nuclear program. That's the majority of the Western world, and a not insignificant portion of the Eastern one.

And this is both recent and ongoing. Yes, I know that the US and Israel are the major pushers behind this, but the rest of the world seems to be in total agreement, or at least following in lockstep. Were it just the UN, I might not have even asked--but it's the EU too.

China and Russia are both going along with this as well, though they generally indicate that they don't think the sanctions are going to work. There are economic issues there that I haven't really paid attention to.