Home

Previous Entry | Next Entry

Voted for Dean
World War Z, by Max Brooks, hardly needs another review. I came late to this party; all of you heard how wonderful this book was back when I started hearing about it, a year ago or more. Presumably all or almost all of you know that it's the sequel to Max Brooks' The Zombie Survival Guide, that it posits that a George Romero-like "zombie" plague turns into a world-wide event, that the first book pretends to be a compilation of useful survival tips from people who successfully fought off or escaped from localized zombie attacks, and that this second book is a deliberate homage to Studs Terkel's The Good War, a compilation of oral histories from survivors as the war is winding down, telling the story of how the zombie war affected not just local communities, but the whole world. You also don't need me to tell you that the book has almost no detractors, that this is one of the most favorably reviewed books in the history of science fiction, and that people who read this book are passing it along to and forcing it on their friends to read faster than, well, faster than a global zombie plague.

All I have to add to that, by way of review, is this. I despise survival horror, but I still loved this book.

The thing about survival horror and me is this. Whether we're talking about proto-survival-horror classics like Ridley Scott's Alien or zombie fiction or psycho killer escape stories like the Saw series or survival-horror themed game shows like Survivor, the survival horror genre gets everything wrong about how to actually survive in adverse conditions, and I just can't get past that. The subject of who lives and who dies, and what makes the difference, when situations go pear-shaped is one that's been subjected to intense scientific and statistical scrutiny over the last hundred years. (I have yet to find a better survey of the subject than Xavier Maniguet's 1996 book Survival: How to Prevail in Hostile Environments, which is both a really fun page-turning read and really thought provoking.) Not the least important by far of the things that the whole genre gets wrong is that it takes it for granted that willingness to triage has to be elevated all the way to callousness. Triage, for the few of you who don't know the technical term, is a technique used in emergency medicine for allocating insufficient medical resources. As you'd expect from the name, it divides all the incoming wounded into three categories. The categories are people who probably will survive whether they get help right now or not, people who probably won't survive no matter how much help we give them right now, and people who probably will survive but only if they get help right now; and only the third group get any medical help until we run out of them. Then the medics turn to group two, in hopes that they were wrong and more people can be rescued; when the last of those dies, they give the remainder the health care they need.

But one of the main conventions of the survival horror genre is that unless somebody utterly callous decides early who isn't going to make it and forces the rest of the group to callously abandon at least half, preferably 3/4ths or more, of the group to immediate death, nobody at all will survive. And scientific study of survival in desperate situations shows that it's just not true. On the contrary, the people who survive the longest are the ones who show the most determination to save everybody who can possibly be saved, who err on the side of keeping the group together and alive rather than on the side of callousness, who wait until it really is inescapably obvious that someone isn't going to make it to give up on them. There are almost no genuinely awful situations that can't be made better by having more help. And this seems so obvious to me that until I read that John Barnes essay I was forwarded the other day and that I linked for you, "The Well-Bitten Hand," I completely and utterly failed to see the appeal of survival horror fiction, let alone survival horror themed game shows. Now I think maybe I get it.

If Barnes is right that new genres and subgenres of fiction arise when society needs new ways to talk about problems, fears, or insecurities that our current fiction didn't equip us with the vocabulary for, then survival horror has almost certainly caught on because it is the perfect genre to talk about Reaganomics. During the Reagan years, American business decided that the only way to save the American economy was to triage out (depending on where you were) anywhere from 20% to 90% of our workers. For almost 30 years now, every American has had to live with the knowledge that he or she is being watched constantly at work for the slightest sign of weakness, that the first time the business hits the tiniest bump in the road they will be abandoned no matter how much help they were being before, and that nobody they worked with will show the slightest sign of grief or remorse that they are gone. When the supposedly unproductive are culled, people in American workplaces tell themselves the same lie that people in survival horror fiction tell each other after somebody they previously liked, and who may have even helped the group as a whole survive some previous attack, tell each other: might as well just accept that they're gone, they never really had a chance anyway, and it was them or me. If Barnes is right and I'm applying his principles correctly, the appeal of survival horror as a genre is that it gives us a way to talk about survival strategies in a world like this one: what traits are valued, and which ones are baggage, and how should I feel if somebody I like doesn't make it, or somebody I don't like doesn't make it, or even if I don't make it?

And if nothing else, World War Z deserves to be elevated over all of the rest of the survival horror fiction I've had shoved off on me over the last couple of decades for this recognition: survival strategies that are designed to get a group of 8 to 10 people through a week-long disaster do not scale well to whole nations over decades, let alone to a species aiming for even longer-term survival. I don't think Brooks gets all of it right, but he gets tremendous credit for me for putting at least some serious thought into the question. OK, this book asks, your home town has been over-run by zombies, and you and a few others survive. Now how are you going to link up with other survivors, and where, and once you do, how do you plan on retaking a big enough area to farm on and manufacture weapons in, how do you plan to organize an army big enough to clear a continent, how will all of the world's reorganized armies address the entirely separate problem of eradicating a plague that can re-explode exponentially if even one zombie staggers up out of the ocean or thaws out of the permafrost, staggers into even one unprepared town, and bites somebody?

Remember that centuries ago, a smallpox epidemic crossed the North American continent at a steady 4 miles per hour, 24 hours a day of 15 minute miles, as panic-stricken (and unknown to them, already plague-infected) Indians tried desperate to outrun and escape the plague that was killing anywhere from 1/3rd to 90% of the towns they were escaping from. And that was before air travel, before the interstate highway system. Even once an almost sure-fire way to detect asymptomatic infectees with the zombie plague is found (within minutes of a bite, dogs go homicidally nuts trying to kill infected humans), can a plague be contained at all? Let's say your plan involves starting by retreating to zombie-proof fortresses, since it's not that hard to keep out even an infinite number of humanoids that can't operate even simple tools, who can't climb any but the most shallow of slopes, and who can't keep moving after exposure to more than a few hours of sub-freezing temperatures -- how long will your zombie-proof fortress last when the nearest couple of hundred thousand desperate human survivors try to batter their way in to escape the zombies behind them? Let's say that there is no vaccine against the zombie plague, but your plan for your own survival is to fund it by selling people a fake vaccine, so that they calmly go about their jobs and don't disrupt the real evacuation plans; does that make you a good guy for keeping the economy going as long as possible and letting the secret official evacuation be unmolested by national panic, or does that make you a bad guy for tricking hundreds of millions of people into not even trying to escape?

When the survivors have to be reorganized and retrained to be put onto a national war footing, how do the leaders maintain the political aura of legitimacy necessary to get the army, let alone the public, to obey them? Which nations are best positioned to feed and re-equip the survivors in other nations, and how does that change the politics and economics of the world, and how do they get the food and weapons flown over vast zombie-infested areas and dropped to the surviving enclaves in other nations? And remember, once your army starts retaking your continent, scattered on the upper floors of buildings all over the continent are going to be a handful of really resourceful people who, because of (or in some cases even in spite of) the incomplete and not always helpful advice of rushed-out government publications like The Zombie Survival Guide, who are still surviving on their own. Not a few of those people are legitimately bitterly angry at having been left behind to fend for themselves or die; how do you integrate them back into your society once the zombies are cleared from their areas? You may not agree with or like all of Brooks' answers, but he's asking an awful lot of interesting questions. (And having a blast with it at times. Some of the highly recognizable celebrities are riotously fun, as we get to see how the zombie war affects people like Colin Powell and Howard Dean, or Bill Maher and Ann Coulter, or even Paris Hilton and Tinkerbell.)

Whether or not I think Brooks got all of his answers right, all of these are a lot more interesting questions to me than, "do I have what it takes to stab a relative or a friend in the face in order to survive myself, or am I loser who deserves to die?" And that's why, even though I utterly despise almost all survival horror, I loved World War Z.

Comments

[info]dreamking00 wrote:
Nov. 23rd, 2007 12:53 pm (UTC)
You can't swing a zombie cat without hitting any number of commentaries wherein zombie movies are social commentaries first and horror/survival movies second. I'd actually thought that WWZ had by and large passed over most of the metaphorical storytelling, in favor of satirical speculation over what the implications are of our society and economy in such circumstances. I'm looking forward to rereading it for the Reaganomics angle..."we are all expendable."

Have you watched 28 Days Later/28 Weeks Later? They're a couple of my favorite horror movies (zombies, naturally), and I'd be interested to know what you think of them if they'd not be something you despise outright.
[info]satyrblade wrote:
Nov. 23rd, 2007 04:11 pm (UTC)
I was going to recommend Shawn of the Dead and the recent remake of Dawn of the Dead for the same reason. Although both play up the "could you shoot mama in the head if she was a zombie?" trope, those films favor the necessity of unity over a "cut 'em loose" solution.

As far as monster archetypes go, the Zombie is by definition a socio-political statement. Based in the slave-culture dread of being forced to work even after death, that archetype has reflected racial fears (White Zombie, I Walked With a Zombie), social subversion and betrayal (Invasion of the Body Snatchers, They Live(*)), a society "eating itself alive" (Night of the Living Dead), old sins coming home to roost (Tombs of the Blind Dead, the entire E.C. horror comics oeuvre), love gone horribly wrong (The Evil Dead, Pet Semetary, Dead/Alive), distrust of authority (Day of the Dead, Return of the Living Dead), consumerism gone mad (Dawn of the Dead), contagion (28 Days/ Weeks Later), and - at best - all of them combined (Shawn of the Dead, World War Z and, again, both versions of Dawn of the Dead). That the archetype also allows you to indulge the kid-like joy/revulsion of spilled viscera and social collapse just adds to the Zombie's appeal. Is it any wonder that we're in the middle of a Zombie renaissance - especially given who's in power right now and just how clearly they've let us know how little they care about us?

Also, like so much pop culture, the Zombie got ripped off from Black folks and re-constituted as a White archetype. How fittingly American :)!

I just wish that George Romero, and John Russo got royalties from all the spin-offs their work inspired. While the Zombie may have pre-dated Night of the Living Dead, most post-Romero Zombie media have drawn more inspiration from that film than from all other sources combined.(**)




--------------------
* - The "pod person" is just a zombie animated by aliens instead of magic, plague or divine retribution.

** - Although Al Feldstein, Richard Matheson and the EC Comics artist stable deserve some credit as well, for inspiring Russo and Romero.
[info]nancylebov wrote:
Nov. 23rd, 2007 12:53 pm (UTC)
You might also like Deep Survival. It doesn't disagree with anything you've posted here, but it might add more detail.
[info]roninspoon wrote:
Nov. 23rd, 2007 03:41 pm (UTC)
A few years ago I wrote a paper on zombie films and stories, and how popular and successful they were, had a direct relationship with periods of nationalistic xenophobia and war stress in America. I specifically made mention of McCarthyism and the War on Terror, and drew parallels between those real world conflicts with an enemy who could potentially be any friend, neighbor of family member and the fiction of a supernatural enemy who can do the same with much more lethal and immediate results.

What you've mentioned here, with regard to the John Barnes essay is that I had overlooked the larger picture, something that was likely inevitable given the narrowed focus of my topic and the relatively short format of the paper. It's not just zombies and political war stress, but virtually all survival horror that reflects a larger breadth of potential conflicts.
[info]ranjtheobscure wrote:
Nov. 23rd, 2007 05:48 pm (UTC)
Zombie movies
Probe the limits of humanity as well as the limits of bestial nature. It's about fear of the other, almost like us, but horribly not like us.

These movies ask us, how bad do things have to be before one abandons Rousseau and gives oneself completely over to Hobbes? The human condition by nature has a foot in each camp.

Reagan is a fitting parallel insomuch as the Reagan era re-energized the cold war. It had been at a low general level even before the long bloody horrid proxy war in Afghanistan. Start II was still a possibility when Ronnie warned us of The Bear In The Woods.

But an even greater fit is the war on terror Zombies, like terrorists are un-negotiating enemies. So when we adopted extreme rendition, torture, and Blackwater diplomacy (remember, their job was originally to guard state dept.)we entered the zone of Dick's "Do androids dream of electric sheep?" where the line between the enemy and one's self becomes too obscure for moral aesthetic human sentiment?

Zombie films, like the war on terror, give us a convenient out. It is the presence of Stanley Milgram in the booth with the dial. It is the conversion of humans into the other via their surrender to the animal hungers they always possessed.

In the real world, people, particularly urban people, can subsume xenophobia and buy that slurpy from a Pakistani without fear it or he will explode.

But as you get farther from the reality of interacting with people from radically different cultures, it becomes more subject to other pressures urging fear. For these folks, Pat Roberson's set is more real than the group of Palestinian immigrants you find yourself shopping with. They, lacking the desensitizing contact of urban life, respond in inappropriate ways.

If it sounds like I am trying to draw a broader inference, I am, though certainly not so much to a hypothetical zombie invasion murika as to the corporatist dystopia we currently occupy. In many films, a paranoia quickly develops about who might have been bitten. It dovetails nicely to the response of the average good murikan -- to scream *terrorist* when anyone on an airplane speaks Arabic or Farsi (or even Hindi).

It is about that moment when Rousseau disappears and a state of nature (red, as it supposedly is) in tooth and claw prevails. It is all conquering fear beating down reason and empathy. Humanity, being something of a tabla raza, can exist without virtue. But soon it will sicken without it, like a sailor too long without a bit of lime. Everyone has it in them to be Gordon Gecko, but few want to have his soul/reality.

Everyone wants the Omega Man to survive, few really want to be him. Thinking on it from this angle, Murika's pathology may be far deeper than most suspect.

Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven deals surprisingly well with the question of monsters who are not zombies.
Very few are re-integrated from the world of cannibals back to civilization, where humans feel respect for themselves and others.

Our international and national reconciliation my be impossible, ultimately, as it was after the first civil war, because too many of our citizens are addicted to the relief the two minutes hate affords.

[info]ponsdorf wrote:
Nov. 23rd, 2007 07:32 pm (UTC)
It's long been a puzzle to me how anyone can become absorbed in labels to the seeming exclusion of reality.

Jumping from the general, to some selected specific, and back to the general is a logical flaw with complex ramifications.

If you'll forgive I'd like to pull something out of context to explore.

For almost 30 years now, every American has had to live with the knowledge that he or she is being watched constantly at work for the slightest sign of weakness, that the first time the business hits the tiniest bump in the road they will be abandoned no matter how much help they were being before, and that nobody they worked with will show the slightest sign of grief or remorse that they are gone.

How would you frame an alternative? Please avoid labels and generalities. I'm looking for the 'nut's ;n bolts'. You may not have the time or inclination to deal with the question, but I hadda ask.
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Nov. 23rd, 2007 11:03 pm (UTC)
Do you really not remember the alternative? Because it wasn't always like this, you know. Read Susan Faludi's Stiffed: The Betrayal of the American Man, it's chock-full of counter-examples.

To generalize from them, as Robert Heinlein said in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress you don't get more milk by beating the cow. If you stack the incentives so that the team gets rewarded when the team gets ahead, then what you get is a whole team who are incented to figure out why the team's slacker is slacking, why his productivity isn't as high as everybody else's. Maybe he needs help. Maybe he needs more training. Maybe he needs specific encouragement. Maybe he needs to be convinced that it's important. Maybe he does need to be threatened to get him to produce, there are a few (very few) people like that.

Even now, it's theoretically the manager's job to figure out how to get every member of his department to perform at their top level. But it's like the SUV analogy; just as drivers have given up on trying to not get hit and are armoring up so that the person with the more expensive car lives, managers have given up on motivating each individual employee and getting their employees the training and tools they need, and instead adopted the strategy of just firing the least productive 20% or more every year just to scare everybody into working more frantically.

Which is, I strongly suspect, why the world buys Finnish cell phones, French aircraft, Japanese electronics, Irish software, and German phone switches and mainframes, despite the fact that those countries' companies pay their people more per hour and work them a heck of a lot fewer hours per year and practically can't fire them no matter what; I suspect it's because employees who aren't scared all of the time do better work, if for no other reason than at least they spend less of their time at work on CYA and on sucking up.
[info]ponsdorf wrote:
Nov. 24th, 2007 12:59 am (UTC)
"Think of it as evolution on action."

If you are a Globalist or Transnational (shucks - even collectivist)what you describe is right and proper.

There's a ton of 'back channel' crap involved, but any business must finally answer to those who deal with productively.

Haven't read the Faludi book you referenced. The Heinlein book I've read several times. [grin]

Coin toss - offer your employees life time employment regardless... or pay your stockholders?

Aside: Almost on topic...Just spent some time with a non-union underground coal miner in Ohio. He'd never heard of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_L._Lewis
nor
http://www.wvculture.org/hiStory/minewars.html
or of the: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molly_Maguires

Not even: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matewan

I dunno... I am sorry for my divergence but the explicate question I asked was How would you frame an alternative? I don't think you responded?
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Nov. 24th, 2007 04:01 am (UTC)
I'm not sure I want to get sucked into this trap. I did give you an answer. It just happens to be a couple of hundred pages long, based on extensive interviews with some of the most successful businessmen in American history and with many of its most productive workers, and you aren't going to read it. You want me to summarize it. And if I do, you'll find my summary insufficiently convincing, because it won't contain the hundreds of pages of supporting evidence.

1) End "at will" employment, either through contracts or through revision to federal employment law. I'm not calling for guaranteed lifetime employment, but I am saying that employees should only be terminated for cause, either demonstrated misconduct on their part or because the job is going away. Firing people just in hopes of finding more productive people to take the same jobs has been proven over and over again to not work, both because of how inherently random and inaccurate the hiring process is and because you're trading demonstrated familiarity with the company and its systems for unproven hypothetical (and unlikely) productivity gains. You're also depressing the productivity of everybody you keep, who will waste mind boggling amounts of time playing CYA instead of trying to figure out ways for the team to be more productive. Which leads to ...

2) End what Faludi calls "the star system," the winner-take-all mentality where only one or at most two people per department get any rewards in any year. What minor productivity gains it incents get lost in the even more powerful incentives to withhold useful information from and otherwise covertly sabotage your co-workers. Reward teams, instead, for the achievement of the team; the exact system that the major defense contractors used to tremendous results through the early 1940s. See her substantial examples, including many cases of workers who in our world would have been fired early for being incompetent or lazy or stupid or clumsy who turned out to have easily addressable problems; teams that were stuck with these guys, who couldn't replace them, who were only going to get their team bonuses if they could figure out how to get good work out of these guys, worked together to teach their coworkers how to be more productive and why they should bother. The way we do things today, your top performers do their flat level best to hide their productivity tricks and secrets, for fear that somebody else will copy them and steal the department's only performance bonus.

Remember, the first law of systems analysis is, "the behavior that the system rewards is the behavior that the system produces." Faludi documents the hell out of the fact that post-1980 American corporate culture primarily rewards sabotage, backstabbing, backside covering, information hiding, and other counter-productive behavior, not to mention the costs both in health and in lower productivity of having 95% of your workforce be terrified, paranoid, stressed out, and/or angry all of the time.

You, of course, are not convinced, because I haven't proven any of these things. But you won't read the hundreds of pages of evidence that I just pointed you at. Even though, I suspect, you'd actually rather enjoy it.
[info]ponsdorf wrote:
Nov. 24th, 2007 07:37 pm (UTC)
No trap intended or attempted.

Your items 1 and 2 are not new or news. They may well be valid models in specific areas, but I don't see how they can be used as generalizations, hence my question.

Unions are an available remedy, for instance.

You seem to be suggesting that many, or most, employers purposefully do things that harm their bottom line just to keep their boot heel on the necks of their employees?

If the long term point of business to make a profit for the owners/shareholders why would they select horrific labor practices?

Many companies do offer counseling, both peer and professional so there must be, at least, some recognition of the issues you raise.

I know you've been burnt several times and that frames your perceptions. In my case, you may remember my mentioning excursions in the world of 'communes' in the late 60's and early 70's. That frames my perceptions as well. I simply don't buy the notion that everyone is equally competent and equally eager to support the system's bottom line no matter what amount of effort is expended to make that so. But that's another story for another time and place.

I'm reminded of "The Peter Principle" which predates Reaganomics by decades.

Aside: I keep studying Uncle Karl and the like to try and figure out what went wrong. It keeps coming back to a single truth. Most people may be created equal, but they soon turn into human beings. [grin]
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Nov. 25th, 2007 07:12 am (UTC)
I'm not suggesting that they're doing things to harm their bottom line on purpose for that or any other reason. I'm suggesting that the things that they're doing, that they think will increase their bottom line, are hurting their bottom line and hard. I'm thinking that we've produced almost an entire generation of managers who think that there's only one way to motivate people, and that's through the threat of firing if they don't appear to be working hard enough while giving the only raises or bonuses to a tiny percentage of the group, as if they were the only ones who had contributed. They think this because this is what they've been told, and because to many people it seems obvious that this would work. It once seemed really obvious to people that the sun revolved around the earth, too though, and management by fear and rewarding only top performers are just as pre-scientific and unproven superstitious behavior as any other untested guess at how the world works. And as with many "obvious" theories of how the world works, they turn out to be dead wrong.
[info]nancylebov wrote:
Nov. 26th, 2007 03:05 pm (UTC)
It's not Brad's point that everyone is equally competent and dedicated--it's that tremendous amounts of talent and dedication are lost if it's easy to throw people out.
[info]ponsdorf wrote:
Nov. 26th, 2007 04:57 pm (UTC)
It's not Brad's point that everyone is equally competent and dedicated--it's that tremendous amounts of talent and dedication are lost if it's easy to throw people out.

Got that... I certainly agree. The issue remains how employers are to separate the wheat from the chaff. That's what prompted my original question.

How do they budget for counseling, retraining, etc? Don't spend enough and a gem may go down the drain. Spend too much and they may need to reduce the work force to pay for the process, etc, etc, etc.

It's a fundamental conundrum, and not a new one at that. It predates Reaganomics by centuries, BTW.

Also I'm not convinced that the issues Brad raises are as prevalent as suggested, but that's for elsewhere.

[info]nancylebov wrote:
Nov. 26th, 2007 11:44 pm (UTC)
How do they budget for counseling, retraining, etc? Don't spend enough and a gem may go down the drain. Spend too much and they may need to reduce the work force to pay for the process, etc, etc, etc.

That's the kind of question every business has to solve anyway. How much do you spend on advertising? Research? New products? Will you come out ahead if you dump your worst customers? And so on.

I don't know what proportion of employees need major amounts of help and what proportion just need some flextime or to trade jobs with another employee or somesuch.
[info]ponsdorf wrote:
Nov. 26th, 2007 11:57 pm (UTC)
Yep... them's the real questions that need to be answered.

Offering anecdotal evidence is not a valid argument. There simply is no functioning system that can meet the requirements of everyone be it employment, health care or whatever.

I, personally, am suspect of government involvement. Government efficiency is an oxymoron.

Also done here. Brad is already upset with me.
[info]kimchalister wrote:
Nov. 26th, 2007 07:56 pm (UTC)
You seem to be suggesting that many, or most, employers purposefully do things that harm their bottom line just to keep their boot heel on the necks of their employees?

Authoritarians often do just that, as Brad has described before. They are so sure their methods must work that they fail to notice that they don’t work.
http://bradhicks.livejournal.com/312114.html

If the long term point of business to make a profit for the owners/shareholders why would they select horrific labor practices?

Because what they are now teaching in MBA school is to ignore anything long term.

… Most people may be created equal, but they soon turn into human beings. [grin]

You are absolutely correct. However, our policy says not “created equal” but “created equal before the law”. They’re two completely different things, though many people mistake the one for the other. It means we will treat people of equal worth with regard to how the law deals with them – that no one gets special privileges because of wealth, power, or connections. It doesn’t exist, but it’s a good ideal to strive for, and to try to enforce.
[info]ponsdorf wrote:
Nov. 26th, 2007 11:27 pm (UTC)
Er... I was citing The Declaration of Independence. I don't normally cite something without a link, but I didn't think it relevant. You do know that the pursuit of happiness is not a blanket guarantee?

I don't think I know policy you're referring to?

Some authoritarians most certainly do as you say. There are two questions of note: Is the issue as wide spread as Brad suggests, and/or is government the fix?

Because what they are now teaching in MBA school is to ignore anything long term.

News to me, I admit! It doesn't surprise me, however, it fits with the concept of instant gratification being taught elsewhere.

Lookit, I will not reply further. Brad is already upset with me for other reasons.
[info]kimchalister wrote:
Nov. 28th, 2007 08:15 am (UTC)
You say "Is government the fix?" as if there was only one kind of government in the world. I submit that the answer to your question lies in what kind of government you offer: a government of the people, by the people and for the people would indeed be the fix. the group we have in our government now, and since Nixon, have been trying (and succeeding) to take the People out of the government and rule by the Elite.
It's happened before (the Gilded Age), but we may not recover this time.
Why don't we learn?
[info]tongodeon wrote:
Nov. 29th, 2007 05:53 pm (UTC)
Indeed, if the problem is some subcategory of "groups of people not behaving optimally" then altering government is, by definition, the the fix. Whether that fix is "less government", "more government", or "making existing government do things differently" is a harder question.
[info]hairyfigment wrote:
Nov. 28th, 2007 07:20 pm (UTC)
The law may forbid corporations to have a long-term goal, if "long term" means after the current stockholders have sold the company and used short-term profits to buy other stocks or a new house. IANAL, but I don't think new stockholders can successfully sue for the foolish negligence of the actions that helped persuade them to buy.
[info]tongodeon wrote:
Nov. 29th, 2007 01:13 am (UTC)
If you stack the incentives so that the team gets rewarded when the team gets ahead, then what you get is a whole team who are incented to figure out why the team's slacker is slacking, why his productivity isn't as high as everybody else's.

I seem to remember an experiment with chickens that worked exactly this way. In one set, breeders bred the individual chickens that produced the most eggs. In another set, the breeders bred the coops of chickens that produced the most eggs. The cooperative coops ended up producing more eggs than the coops of the children of the single individuals, possibly because the maximally yielding individuals were also being selected for aggressiveness, antagonism, and other traits that don't work well in groups.
[info]kimchalister wrote:
Nov. 24th, 2007 08:08 am (UTC)
Another book you might want to read is Thinking For a Living, which is about work. It discusses how the US corporate culture decided to treat workers as replaceable cogs in the machine while European corporate culture went the other way and decided to value its workers and retrain them when necessary rather than discarding them, and how much better the European system works.
[info]ponsdorf wrote:
Nov. 24th, 2007 07:46 pm (UTC)
That's an interesting reference, thanks. But it appears to be applicable to a limited set of employees. Brad's references seem to be much broader.

It (and Brad's suggestion) is on my 'to buy' list.
[info]idonotlikepeas wrote:
Nov. 24th, 2007 04:29 am (UTC)
It's interesting that you should mention the Saw movies in this context, because I don't see them as survival horror in general. The second one is the closest to what you're talking about (a group of people trapped in an elaborate deathtrap who have to try to get out), but the point of the movie is pretty much exactly what you're saying here; if they'd worked together to help each other instead of stumbling around like buffoons and backstabbing each other like assholes, more of them would have survived. The serial killer in the Saw movies believes that he's teaching people to value their lives (or trying to, anyway); the people that "lose" are people that don't value the good things that they have sufficiently, aren't kind enough to each other, and so on. (The third movie goes even further into the territory of Thou Shalt Not Screw Thy Neighbor.)

Edited at 2007-11-24 04:29 am (UTC)
[info]rozasharn wrote:
Nov. 25th, 2007 12:17 am (UTC)
Brad, have you tried Island in the Sea of Time? It isn't horror (except for a few passages), but it is about a relatively small group in a world that changed without warning, and that group does stick together and pull together rather than turn on one another. It's presented as the only sensible and by-far-most-constructive strategy.

I mean, if you're looking for pleasure reading, that might suit you better.
[info]spiritualmonkey wrote:
Feb. 11th, 2008 05:19 pm (UTC)
On a related note, another look at survival (on a larger social scale) is in Stirling's "Changed World" series.

The Island in the Sea of Time event changes the laws of physics in the world left behind, and now high-energy technologies no longer function. Quite well written, especially if you like sociologly/anthropology.