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Misery Chick

  • Jul. 29th, 2007 at 1:56 AM
Brad @ Burning Man
This evening was another reminder that there is an entirely 100% reliable asshole detector for massively multiplayer online roleplaying games.

Here's my most recent version, in the front, on your right, with the purple hair. Her supervillain combat name is Misery Chick, and she's the (self-proclaimed) student body president of Aeon University. (You may, for these purposes, ignore her necromantic army, waiting in the lobby of an "abandoned" warehouse in the Black Mariah neighborhood of St. Martial island, where they're waiting for her to give the orders to slaughter an obnoxious gang of cyberpunk tech thieves because they stand between her and an Associated Press reporter who printed Misery Chick's premature death notice.)

What makes her, like a lot of my characters in various MMOs over the years, an entirely reliable asshole detector is that she is costumed as a believable female character. In this case I was going for something of an exaggerated goth-punk college student look: faded black jeans, black Doc Martens, black biker jacket, Cthulhu t-shirt, a big butch-looking black leather belt, elbow-length white gloves, purple stringy hair with black roots still showing, way too much black eye makeup, and a faintly sour facial expression. What makes a character even this obviously a role-playing character, even this obviously exaggerated, an asshole detector is that your average player can see that she's costumed as neither a drag queen nor a slut nor a comic book super-heroine. That combined with the fact that I play her as in-character as I can (although Eris help me if a real goth-punk starts quizzing me on favorite bands, because I doubt I could name more than half a dozen darkwave artists and half of them aren't current), and I've gotten pretty convincing at playing a woman online fooling even most women when I try, left no meaningful doubt in their minds when they (wrongly) concluded that this particular character was being run by an actual woman their own age.

And that's why, like every other convincing female character I've played in any of these games, it is only when I am on this character that (a) nobody listens to my suggestions, (b) I'm called by blatantly condescending and/or insulting nicknames even before I make suggestions, and (c) when I complain about either of these things, citing facts to back myself up, I'm called a bitch. (Boggles my mind that it's the 21st century and guys still use that insult; do they actually think that there's any woman in the world who isn't used to it by now?) And there shouldn't have any business doubting that I had the facts on my side: the character was wearing a 21-month veteran badge, and I was citing numbers straight out of HeroStats. But nope, for defending my claim that I knew what I was talking about with facts, I was "up past my bedtime" and "a total bitch."

Out of 19 players across three teams last night, I ran into six of these. (Thanks to the invasion event, it's actually much easier to find big teams these days.) All of them easily identifiable as men under the age of 25, that is to say, as entirely sub-human. I strongly suspect that it's not a coincidence that all six of them were terrible players, too. It almost certainly wasn't improving their mood that a woman their own age was playing better than they were. But I might not have noticed anywhere near as quickly just how stupid they were if I'd been playing a character that they might have had some doubt about, if they were even vaguely considering the possibility might be played by another guy. It's proof that this is just pathological attitude, though, and not actual fear, that they treat my male characters or female character that look like a guy designed them more respectfully; after all, it's not as if I can crawl through the screen and punch them in the nose. On the contrary, the closest that any of my characters could come to hurting them any time in the last several days was the evening that I was playing this character ... that third team, the one that had 3 of the 6 assholes I met last night, invited me because they needed my character, something they complained bitterly about when I quit after the third mission with them. No, even when they needed her help, at an age that they are famously too interested in the opposite sex, they couldn't stop treating a female player like dirt.

Comments

[info]silveradept wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 07:19 am (UTC)
Weird. In a simulated reality where superpowers are the norm rather than the exception, those players still cling to the idea that female characters are somehow inferior. One would think that somewhere along the way, the stupidity of that idea would manifest in some way that they'd understand it. (And would it be too much to ask from there for them to take the idea that females are perfectly competent in CoH/CoV and apply it to the real world?) The more things change, I guess...
[info]wolfwings wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 07:26 am (UTC)
I've run into it as well.
Almost never very strongly since I play characters that always have some 'taint' to them, either grabbing a monstrous head or feet or zombie hands, but I tend towards the understated builds. Average, Thin, or Heavy instead of Athletic for a quick comparison.

Right now I've got... a vaguely RP-oriented 'old geezer' and a mid-20's-themed semi-monstrous female, also mostly RP-oriented. Both have... well, apparently I'm good at reading as an old fart, and good at reading as a middle-aged house-wife judging from the reactions I've gotten over the years. :-P
Re: I've run into it as well. - [info]bradhicks - Jul. 29th, 2007 07:47 am (UTC) Expand
Re: I've run into it as well. - [info]silveradept - Jul. 29th, 2007 04:07 pm (UTC) Expand
IBTP - [info]krinndnz - Jul. 30th, 2007 07:04 am (UTC) Expand
Re: IBTP - [info]silveradept - Aug. 1st, 2007 01:45 am (UTC) Expand
Re: I've run into it as well. - [info]nichan - Jul. 29th, 2007 05:28 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I've run into it as well. - [info]brynndragon - Jul. 29th, 2007 05:48 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I've run into it as well. - [info]wolfwings - Jul. 29th, 2007 09:01 pm (UTC) Expand
Re: I've run into it as well. - [info]nichan - Jul. 30th, 2007 02:24 am (UTC) Expand
[info]wolfwings wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 07:21 am (UTC)
On a side-note...
...I found out I'd left the recurring billing enabled, so I figured I might as well break down and play CoX again. Which servers do you frequent?

I'm... well, yeah, WolfWings there too as a Global Chat Handle. :-)
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 07:38 am (UTC)
Re: On a side-note...
Villains on Virtue, the unofficial roleplaying server. Heroes (which I haven't played in months) on Freedom.
Re: On a side-note... - [info]wolfwings - Jul. 29th, 2007 09:16 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]harper_knight wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 07:22 am (UTC)
I was gonna leave a comment saying how not all under-25 males are sub-human assholes, until I remembered we all are. And those of us who aren't always sometimes still manage to screw up at the worst possible moments.

Damn.
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 07:38 am (UTC)
The good news is that the survivors do tend to grow out of it.
[info]brynndragon wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 04:42 pm (UTC)
Well, (un)fortunately most under-25 women don't realize how utterly assholish this sort of behavior is, which is why it continues unabated and there's the possibility of said males getting laid. It's not until you hit the late-20s that us women lay the smackdown on (or at least refuse to sleep with) guys who haven't figured out how not to be assholes by that point.
(no subject) - [info]pixxelpuss - Jul. 29th, 2007 06:26 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]brynndragon - Jul. 29th, 2007 06:41 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]satyrblade - Jul. 30th, 2007 02:04 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]pixxelpuss - Jul. 30th, 2007 03:51 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]caraig wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 08:01 am (UTC)
I found it odd myself, when playing a female character. I haven't run into parties that were that bad, but then again usually I solo. However, there've been a few eye-opening incidents. The main character I play of late is an empathy/lightning defender. Aside from the 'hello, nurse' jokes I got (which I didn't mind much being an Animaniacs fan) some of the people I partied with seemed to be a bit more concerned (when I was a topic, at any rate) when my healer would be getting a 'naughty nurse' costume.

It's kind of hard to make a non-bimbo female character in CoX, so I guess I wasn't surprised so much as disappointed. I guess I can't complain, even so. I suppose my biases and tendencies seep through all the same.
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 09:49 am (UTC)
Eh. It's easy to make a non-bimbo character. Go to the body-shape sliders and bring waist up slightly and chest down slightly, and consider setting the overall build to slightly above the midpoint. Stay completely away from Tops with Skin and Bottoms with Skin, unless worn under something. Build your character around the "armor" sets under Tight or Armor. Or build the character around any of the jackets, whether military or suit or lab coat or (if you've been playing 3 months) the trenchcoat. Build it around Pants or the medium or longer Skirts instead of skin tight leggings, or when using those use the Pants or Cargo textures. If you're determined to have a skinny female character with a skin-tight generic superhero costume, take a good look at the Armor Padding, Armor Plate, Flack Jacket, Tech Armor, Tech Crey, and Tech Robotic texture/color combinations, all of which scream "no nonsense."

Hmm. Empathy/Lightning, medical professional concept? Pale blue Padded Armor top with white armor plates, matching pale blue Suit Pants, Masks with Hair, Sunglasses with brown frames and very light gray (nearly transparent) lenses. Or substitute a white dress shirt with a pale blue tie and add a sleeveless Lab Coat, open front. Want something more feminine than the dress shirt, the V Neck top shows some cleavage without being slutty. Either way, use the Robotic Large gloves, Tech texture, in white; those look great with Electric Blast attacks and the white color will look vaguely medical-device instead of weapon-like. Hair color and face number of your choosing, I'd suggest one of the shorter hair cuts, they look the most professional and will look good with glasses. Then go to the "shape" sliders and keep hitting "random" on the face until you look at that character and think, "grown up professional" rather than "young and cute."

Can you tell I've spent a ton of time with the costume creator? Tell Serge that Old Drunken Santa sent you.
(no subject) - [info]trainerjonathan - Jul. 29th, 2007 11:13 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]bradhicks - Jul. 29th, 2007 05:12 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]koogrr - Jul. 30th, 2007 02:59 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]pope_guilty - Jul. 29th, 2007 01:38 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]caraig - Aug. 8th, 2007 04:59 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]arachnophiliac wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 01:16 pm (UTC)
I'm with you on the costuming thing for female characters, and how it dovetails with the abuse that players of female characters sometimes receive in CoH/CoV. My two female CoV characters are dressed what I would consider realistically. Amanda Catastrophe (Technology Robotics/Force Field Mastermind) always wears her starting costume: white lab coat, tennis shoes, faded blue jeans, pink T-shirt, glasses, slightly unkempt ponytail. She has a very "un-heoric" physique for CoV (narrow shoulders, small bust, thick waist, wide hips, short legs.) She hasn't had many problems with assholes, but I don't play her much.

Umbrina (Science Radiation Blast / Radiation Emission Corruptor) has a much harder time. He default costume is nondescript: light gray T-shirt, light beige chinos, tennis shoes. (In-character, this is how she was dressed at the time of the "accident".) She too wears glasses, and wears her dishwater blonde hair long and in her face. I got harassed about once a day by someone commenting that my costume and / or name was "gay," "stupid," or "effing lame". When she was able to buy a costume slot, I gave her the costume that she would adopt in-character once she was farther along her career path: menacing and stylish, but very functional. Black boots, black synthetic top and pants, somewhat form-fitting (no baggy clothes for dangerous missions, thank you), with plenty of tactical pouches and a utility belt. She also dyed her hair black and ditched her glasses for contacts. For this, she was still "gay" and "stupid," but also obviously a "dyke".
[info]archanglrobriel wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 01:34 pm (UTC)
So sadly true. I was playing CoV with my daughter and we both decided to play female characters of the sort you describe - more realistic, more articulate descriptions etc. I was stunned and appalled and deeply saddened to find that right out the gate our kills were constantly being stolen and if we said anything about it - we were "bitches" and "dykes." Our suggestions were never listened to and the only interaction most of the other male players wanted to have with us was to try to flirt or cajole or otherwise manipulate/play with the female characters as sort of toys, ego boosts etc. a/s/l? a/s/l? a/s/l? Are you -really- girls? Blah blah blah. And then of course, there was the blatant misogynistic asshattery...the character who wouldn't leave us alone. The character who felt it was funny to "push" us around and drag higher level baddies into us. The one who stood around yelling rude things at us. Thankfully, I realized early on that we'd need to put our profanity guards back up.
The part I pointed out to my daughter (and where I feel it was a very useful exercise for her) were the parts where the assholes got frustrated enough with our non-responses that they backed into their repetoire of automatic responses to any "uppity" women.
Bitch. Dyke. Ho. Fat. Stupid. Bitch.
My daughter and I were able to have a long discussion about how meaningless these words are - especially to toons - but really to any woman and how they're words that are intended to shame, intimidate and silence.
And also on the plus side, though - when we did find other female characters who were similarly disposed, we made the most kick-ass team in the history of teams and there was definitely a comeraderie there.

It's really sad how much further than that I thought we'd come, though.
[info]st_ranger wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 06:09 pm (UTC)
I only played Cov for a month but it sounds like a completely different game from the one you describe... sure, I saw a few people running around, but I don't think I was able to have one full conversation with anyone. I felt like that game was a ghost world compared to WoW. Once I realized the game was about doing the same basic missions in the same basic settings over and over I wandered back to my other MMOs. :/
[info]pixxelpuss wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 06:33 pm (UTC)
You win the good parent award. Woot!

I mean, it's sad that you had to have that conversation, but I'm glad that you daughter got that preparation.
[info]omgitsgene wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 02:39 pm (UTC)
Heh, and I've always found that there're a hell of a lot of guys who play girl toons, and that the actual women trend towards being better than average players (assuming an adult). Go figure.
[info]onyxflame wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 06:26 pm (UTC)
Heh, on one mud I played, about half the female chars were actually played by men. And in 7 years of mudding, I've only known 2 male chars that were played by women. I'm sure this says something interesting about our culture and psychology...
(no subject) - [info]pixxelpuss - Jul. 29th, 2007 06:35 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]omgitsgene - Jul. 30th, 2007 01:44 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]bradhicks - Jul. 30th, 2007 04:24 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]koogrr - Jul. 30th, 2007 03:03 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]thesigother wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 02:44 pm (UTC)
Two comments:
one: That would explain some of the negative feedback I get from playing some of my fem toons. I am not trying to play her particularly female, per se, but liked the character concept.

Two: Are you sure it is the female character that you are representing? When I get the opportunity to team with you there is very little communication, and a lot of trying to find you on a map on my side. Now, I realize that even though I have been playing this game since it came out, you have a lot more hours logged in than I do. On the other hand, your tendency to wade in is not my style of play, even with a mastermind.

I am not saying that female toons are not being discriminated against. But I think that those that do it are just plain silly. You have NO idea who you are really playing with. That has been obvious since the days of IRC when guys would imitate women just to freak out the homophobes later, or for non-consensual gay/straght cybersex. I have also known "cross dressing" players on EQ who have been known to get feebies out of the deal...

On the other hand my g/f has not had many of these issues herself. Or if she has, she has not said much about them. Any other lady players with a different point of view here?
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 05:15 pm (UTC)
I would bet you good money that most guys who team with Allura think that she's a guy.
(no subject) - [info]thesigother - Jul. 30th, 2007 02:44 am (UTC) Expand
[info]brynndragon wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 05:35 pm (UTC)
Sad to say, his experiences are not unusual for someone playing a female toon, as I've has similar things happen in CoH and WoW and LotRO. It only gets worse if you hop on Vent or TS and they find out you're an RL female too. There's a reason I no longer do that unless it's with someone(s) who I already know and trust to not be assholes about it.
(no subject) - [info]onyxflame - Jul. 29th, 2007 06:36 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]pixxelpuss - Jul. 29th, 2007 06:37 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]chipmunk_planet wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 02:51 pm (UTC)
Welcome to the real world.
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 05:19 pm (UTC)
Oh, it's hardly news to me. It's something I'd heard of decades before anybody but a handful of academics had even heard of the Internet, and something that's been happening to my more realistic female online roleplaying characters since the Internet was young.

It's as much fascinating to me, as an Aspie, trying to figure out how people decide if a female character is really female as it is that 1 in 3 guys treat women like crap.
(no subject) - [info]chipmunk_planet - Jul. 30th, 2007 02:08 am (UTC) Expand
[info]netaria wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 02:59 pm (UTC)
I play Guild Wars and I have only female toons, but I have never run into this problem in the two years I've been playing on and off. I was in several guilds before landing in [SAGE], but I will definitely say that I usually solo.

>.< I'll also admit that apparently a lot of people think I'm actually a guy player at first.
[info]omgitsgene wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 03:42 pm (UTC)
Good rule of thumb: Everyone on the internet is a guy until substantially proven otherwise.
(no subject) - [info]bradhicks - Jul. 29th, 2007 05:25 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]brynndragon - Jul. 29th, 2007 05:38 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]netaria - Jul. 29th, 2007 09:32 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]thesigother - Jul. 30th, 2007 02:49 am (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]onyxflame - Jul. 29th, 2007 06:44 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]novacheckers - Jul. 29th, 2007 07:04 pm (UTC) Expand
(no subject) - [info]netaria - Jul. 29th, 2007 09:30 pm (UTC) Expand
[info]donkey_hokey wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 04:26 pm (UTC)
Heh. I've never played any of the online games, but if I did, this is exactly why I'd choose a male character. I deal with enough shit like this out in the real world.
[info]st_ranger wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 06:13 pm (UTC)
Don't worry, guys treat eachother like shit, too.
[info]shokolada wrote:
Jul. 29th, 2007 09:38 pm (UTC)
It's not just the male-female interaction that they can't handle, it's mature behavior in general.

I don't actually party much, since in WoW you can get pretty far soloing, and since I got Mei signed up we can do almost everything we want as a duo.

We did join a guild a few months ago, after being recruited for our relatively high level in useful classes and builds that aren't interesting to most powergamers. The person who recruited us was very mature and friendly, as are the guild officers.

Unfortunately, the bulk of the guild seems 13-year-olds calling everyone else "gay", making hyper-stale Chuck Norris jokes, and otherwise acting like a children who'd have benefited from a lot morse spankings growing up. I've tried grouping with these brats on occasion, when desperate to complete a goal; I've regretted it every time.

There've been several times that I've nearly /gquit, and the guild chat channel is often turned off.
[info]satyrblade wrote:
Jul. 30th, 2007 02:17 pm (UTC)
*chuckle* The "morse spankings" misspelling suggests a very interesting pattern to corporal punishment: spankings in which the rhythmn and severity of the blows corresponds to Morse code messages like "I am a sexist dipshit who should never spawn," "My genes are toxic waste," and "Beat me like the imbecile I clearly am."

On second thought, such beatings might provide an incentive for said genetic toxic-waste dipshits. :)
(Anonymous) wrote:
Jul. 30th, 2007 07:19 am (UTC)
Men Under the Age of 25
Well, why should you be surprised? I recall that my car-insurance rates receded amazingly when I passed the quarter-century mark.

Curiously, I had read about this while I was still younger than that, and swore to myself that I would still drive fast and have fun, though older than 25 years.

I broke my crazy juvenile oath to myself.

Sure enough, the insurance companies (with their legions of actuaries) were right, and I almost magically slowed down my driving and stopped taking stupid chances and doing stupid boy tricks (with motor vehicles, at least)
at about the time I got to be 25 years old.

Oh, just something I remember reading somewhere:

Most Air Forces have always considered that if one is younger than 18, he is too rash to be a fighter pilot; if one is older than 25, he is of course too cautious to be a fighter pilot.

All the best, from Justthisguy who equally hates Six Apart and Googl
[info]samael7 wrote:
Jul. 30th, 2007 10:30 pm (UTC)
My toons are roughly split 50/50 male/female. To my great delight, I've never had that issue with other players, although sometimes they've made assumptions to my actual gender. Occasionally, they're surprised when I disclose that I'm male.

That said, of the three main females I play these days, one is bordering on monstrous and one uses the exposed-brain-with-tubing "hair" piece. That one's actually been called "he" before, which I don't get. Exposed-brain-with-tubing is what ALL the models on the Paris runways are wearing these days!

The third is pretty aggressively female -- she's a sonic defender and I, uh, gave her a big chest, seeing as how she needed the lungpower (a yuk-yuk worthy of a 16 year old, I know). Black Currawong has wings too, but she wears black steampunk armor (dark purple highlights) and blasts the shit out of stuff, since there's not much else to do once the rings and toggles are in place. There's nothing nurse-like about her (except, I suppose, in a different sense of the word). She's also level 50. So maybe people don't mess with her for any or all of those reasons.

One toon that's, well, if not an asshole detector, is defintitely a maturity detector is my very thinly-coded gay hero, The Rusty Disciplinarian (battle cry: "Time for a spanking!"). If you were born somewhere just before the Disco era, you'd recognize him as something right out of the Village People. He's got the leather ring harness (the one that, for reasons I've not been able to determine, the apparently-kinky Warwolves wear) over a bare chest, patent leather pants, leather lace-up doc marten's, a handlebar moustache you could lose a vole in, and a James Dean hat. He's got the older-man face, but on an absolutely ripped body (he's a claws scrapper). Even his bio (born in Kansas, moved to San Francisco, joined the Navy) is pretty out there, although I don't "out" him explicitly.

Funny thing is, most people get it right away, or are blithely clueless the whole time. Or, of course, get it and say nothing. But, amazingly, I've never been harrassed.

P.S. Misery's liche -- I didn't know they were so tall!
[info]nancylebov wrote:
Jul. 31st, 2007 07:54 am (UTC)
How do you make your characters plausibly female?
[info]bradhicks wrote:
Aug. 2nd, 2007 05:20 pm (UTC)
Remember this about me: I had to learn to pass as a guy, too. The library of tricks is way too long to write down, either way. That's why it took me so long to get back to you, namely to decide which ones to highlight in a quick response.

The biggest deal, and the one that lets me skate on a lot of slip-ups, has to do with character looks. Drag queens do not look like real women, after all, nor (at some level) are they supposed to, and not for reasons of biology alone: actual women don't dress like that. Why do drag queens dress the way they do, when almost no women do? I call it two reasons: because drag queens dress the way that men think that they would dress if they were women, the way that men often wish that women would dress, and because the women who do try to dress that way come under crippling peer pressure not to do so. So if I want a character to pass for having a female player, I aim for clothes that, whether mundane or fantastical, formal or ratty, look practical. Even the one female character I have who wears the traditional superheroic spandex unitard wears it with a full-length brown leather coat over it. Otherwise, I tend to go for slacks or skirts over tights or bikinis, armor or suit jackets over skin-tight and peak-a-boo tops, and so forth.

Another looks-related issue is to not make them look, well, like Barbie. About 20 years ago, the Ford Agency did a publicity stunt where they invited any woman in New York who thought she was good looking enough to be a fashion model to apply in one big open casting call, unlimited opportunities to win. 10,000 women, more or less, showed up. And remember, this isn't 10,000 representative women, this is 10,000 women self-selected to be among the most beautiful in New York. How many of them did the Ford Agency decide were good looking enough to be fashion models? Two. So if the character looks to be of average attractiveness, more or less, rather than like less than 1 woman in 10,000 does, I figure that other players see it and assume that the person who designed the character wanted someone who looked, well, like themselves.

There's behavioral, stuff, too. I ask a lot more leading questions, end sentences in question marks that aren't actually questions to catch that lilting subservient tone that women get browbeaten into, and make suggestions at times when my male-appearing characters would bark orders. If I'm paying attention, I also remember to use the word "feel" as a synonym for "think." I also try to remember to never admit in public that I eat. There's more to it than that, but those are just examples, and besides, all the speech and behavioral stuff is just icing on the cake; the realistic appearance does all the work for me.

I mentioned [info]allura629 earlier, a real life friend I know who's a woman who plays City of Heroes that I'm prepared to bet gets routinely mistaken for a guy? Her characters do tend to wear the Image Comics type slutwear, have Barbie's proportions, and she does tend to bark orders rather than make suggestions ... all things that will push the average online gamer's "gotta be a guy" buttons.